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clutch motor
Hi fellow "Gatorites",
I just purchased a (very) used 6X4 Gator, with a few problems (many).
First item I am concerned with is the clutch thingy. The clutch on the motor is continuiously engaged, which in turn is running the transaxle clutch making it impossible to shift from neutral to forward or reverse while running. I haven't tried reducing the idle speed, yet, but I think it may be more than that. The Gator is old (no ID plate to be found) so I don't know which service or operators manual to order. I called JD to see if there is such a thing as "one manual fits all", but the fellow I talked to said I need the ID number. I also need the wiring diagram, because the previous owner did some "creative wiring".
I have the engine make and ID, but not the chassis.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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clutch motor
Gatoraider,
I can see why Brian and KT speak highly of you! You gave me more information in 1 paragraph than numerous calls to JD (and the "not technically trained" reps. I've talked to)Makes one wonder who's answering the phone at JD.....whatever. It's raining as I write this, so I'll have to check out the ID thing later...got it under a tarp.
You are "right-on" about the engine. It's a FD620D-AS11, just as you said, and I sort of figured it was of early vintage. As for the RPM, I don't have a tach, but I turned it down so it stalled and the clutch was still engaged. (Plan on rebuilding the carb soon). It(the clutch)probably needs repair or rebuilding. My neigbor, who is pretty engine savy, pointed out that the length of the belt and the proper distance between the two clutches is important, but I think the clutch is just plain bad......plus a few other "goodies"......one being the electronic fuel pump...among others. Question: Are the clutches what was once called "centrifugal" or "variable speed" clutches?
Thank you so much for the help you have given thus far. I hope this is the beginning of many more discussions. 
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clutch motor
Thanx Gatoraider,
One (of many to come)question....well. two. 1.) Is the "moveable sheave" you mention also called the "spider"? I have a couple of pages of a repair manual that came with the machine and it has a "blow-up" of parts. It's a three pronged device that seems to be pretty important. 2.)If it is called the "spider", that answers my second question (clutch on or off the engine shaft?) I susspected as much about the distance between the clutches. It seems if there were some way of braking the transaxel (in my case) clutch it would help, but I can understand if the engine clutch is working properly, that's not a factor. I suppose, JD is the only source of a clutch tool kit, right?.....big bucks!!!!!
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clutch motor
Hi,...again, hope I don't wear out my welcome.
OK...now I got the difference between a sheave and a spider. I got a dealer about 12 miles from here, so my next step is to "suck up" to them and see if they will rent me a kit. If the clutch is shot, which I fear, will I be able to buy a complete unit without knowing the ID of my machine...like, are the clutches pretty much "standard"?
Since the thing drives fine, once I put it in gear before I start the engine, is it safe to assume that my secondary clutch (transaxle) is working OK? The thing takes off like a jack-rabbit! Sorry to keep buggin' you. My only hope is that you are like me when it comes to helping others. I'm an retired telephone man ( Christian) and I thrive on helping anyone who needs phone work, or any field of expertise God has blessed me with.....NOT Gators.....yet. Thanx again!!!I hope this clutch job will keep me busy and leave you alone until my next problem.
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clutch motor
HI,..you said:
"I guess your former owner disabled the neutral switch because the clutch didn't work."
Yep, that's why it didn't grind when he demonstrated it. I found it taped behind the passenger seat next to the fuel pump. If I ever get a manual I'll know where it mounts....hopefully. I took the muffler and belt off yesterday. I will be calling the local(almost)dealer tomorrow to see if I can pick there brains. I found a drawing of the clutch puller and the arbor to hold it in the vise. The puller looks like a plain old bolt with somekind of sleeve on it. I read somewhere that a 3 point puller is needed....where is that used, or am I imagining stuff? I'm going to the library to see if they have any info on Gators. I know they have ATV manuals. Lest you think I am too cheap to buy one, I'm just afraid, without the model number, I'll buy the wrong one. (Been there, done that)
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clutch motor
Know what? I'm beginning to fear I bought a "hot" Gator. It appears to have been re-painted in spots and there are what appears to be grinder marks under the paint on the frame next to the radiator cap. I believe you said earlier, that the ID was etched into the frame and not on a tag, right? Maybe I should do like they do on TV and get some acid or whatever they use on weapons to raise the ID marks that have been ground off. ...Whatever....I am off to the library and then to the dealer. I don't know where I read about the puller... I am constantly on the web looking up stuff. (one of my PCs crashed last night and I was on the web until 2:30AM trying to get it back up.) Yawn!!!!
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clutch motor
Gatoraider & KW,
For the sake of clarity, perhaps I should straighten out some stuff. This machine actually belongs to a friend, but to keep it simple, I acted as if it were mine. My friend is not too mechanically inclined so he asked me to work on it. Sorry if I misrepresented myself. However I will pass on your excellent advice. I was with him when he bought the thing and frankly, the guy seemed a little "shady", but he mentioned when he bought the thing, 5 years ago, it was a "basket case". I scraped the paint off the frame and there is nothing there. This brings me to ask, how would I (we)identify it to the dealer? Does Deere keep a list of stolen vehicles and are there other means of identifing a Gator?
I'll talk to my friend and the dealer tomorrow....who by the way, was kind enough to lend me a clutch kit.($119.38)Now that I see it, I don't think I would have much trouble duplicating it. the bolt size is etched on the bolt. Might have a little trouble with the arbor. The clutch is off and as you predicted, Gator, 2 of the rollers had a flat spot. 2 of them rolled easily, the other not so. The spring was not broken but appears worn on ends and very weak....plus it didn't protrude very far out of thewhat-cha-ma-call-it. Since I am just guessing, not having worked on this piece of equipment, ever, I would say that this spring is the major problem...besides the flatspots on the rollers.
My dad had a lawnmower repair shop and taught me a little, plus we built a scale model Curved Dash Olds (Popular Mechanics Magizine plans)for my son, who loved old cars. It was powered by an old lawn mower engine with a centrifugal clutch. I digress, sorry.
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clutch motor
dear, patient gatoraider,
I detect .0015 of play between the moveable and stationary sheaves.(that's the smallest feeler gauge I have and it barely fits between the parts.) Since I am a very "cause and effect" type of person, question: how does the flat spot on the rollers effect the operation of the clutch and does the condition of the spring seem to be the cause of the original problem? With my limited knowledge of centrifugal clutchs, I think I know, but would like your expertese. Also, the sheaves are scored a little and not perfectly smooth. Is this a problem? The reason I am dwelling on this stuff is that 300+ dollars is alot to pay for something that may not be needed. The new spider (and spring) may be all that is needed...hopefully, because there are several other issues with this machine that need attention.
Side bar...can you think of any reason why your posts are being sent 2, sometimes 3 times, at different times. There is alot about this forum I don't understand (What else is new!!)ex: "Use boxes below for Web and Image Links"
Huuuuuh?
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clutch motor
KT,
Just re-read your original post and it seems you are not happy with your "green". right??? I just thought I'd tell you I bought a used 8HP JD riding mower about 15 years ago. I abuse the heck out of it, but I do change the oil often, and it seems to be un-destructable...knock on wood!!! I don't know what kind of "green" equipment you are running, but I just thought I would let you know my experience with JD...and this Gator, despite it's many problems (do to neglect, basically) will serve my friend just fine. He recently bought 30 acres and that's where he will use it.....a gentleman farmer.
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clutch motor
Hi there,
"I never measured that way, I just put them together and push down on the movable sheave and rock it back and forth on the post." I did that, too. I just stuck the gauge in to give you an idea as to how loose it was. "Not much", I felt wouldn't cover it, because "Not much" is not the same for everyone. I didn't think the slight grooves should effect the operation too much...they are little more than scratches. Another thing I don't understand is why the belt is notched and must be 1.1 inches wide. Since the belt rides up the sheaves as the RPM increases, why the notches? It appears the width of the belt is doing all the work. Oh well, never was too bright in Physics 101.
Wonder if there is such a book as "Gators for Dummies".
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Hey gator,
The belt thing makes sense. Decided to go with a new clutch. The fellow at the dealer was very helpful. He did not high pressure us, just told us his experience with rebuilding clutches. So while we wait for the clutch to come in, I started on the next problem.....the starter. I read somewhere on this forum, it might be easier to work on these "reptiles" by pulling the engine. After today, I might echo this comment.....since I had so much "fun?" today removing the starter....standing practally on my head after whacking my dome a few times on the dump deck, trying to see thru all the wires and other stuff in the way. I haven't told you about the starter problem, because I just want to work on one problem at a time.....these is plenty more. The starter spinns fine, it just doesn't engage all the time.....almost like an auto with a few teeth missing from the fly wheel. The previous owner said he replaced the solenoid, and it does look new, I just don't know if he put it together right. A couple of observations; The gear on the starter shaft (bendix) locks engaged only in one direction and I have no idea where the nylon fork that the selenoid operates goes. I have a sneaking idea that the previous owner didn't either.
....stay tuned, please.
The price of the TM floored me (170 something)and the CD at $76.00 is a bit steep also since I don't plan on making a living repairing these things.....I'll "pick your brain"....and just send you the $76.00....if you're willing to help me thru this mess I got myself into.
Or if you like, I'll send you my e-mail address and stop boring all these other folks with my rambling and digressing, who read this forum...and just bore you with my rambling and digressing. Hopefully, someone else is benefiting from all the help you are giving me...which reminds me, I'd better send in my 19.00 to Tractorpoint.
God Bless!!!!
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clutch motor
Duuh, What's a "Stop"? Believe it or not, I did what you said about the bed!!!! I'm just a klutz...been know to bump my (bald) head on any and every thing! In fact, when I was working, it was a daily ritual that every one would check my head for new scars. Did you ever see that e-mail picture of the back of a bald guys head with a lawn mower tattoo on it? That was posted at my place of work with my name on it....and it resembled me, even.
(I have all 4 wheels off so I can get at the engine and stuff)
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clutch motor
I got you last post twice.....one at 9:20 and one at 10....something. Something else must need a "stop", or whatever.
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Yo gator,
Sorry for bugging you on this beautiful week-end, but I gotta ask you something....else. I took off one of the chains to clean and oil it and have to ask you just what the heck is the size of the carriage bolt nuts holding the axle holding housing? It ain't 3/4 or 19MM. I drove a 11/16 impact socket on the nuts with a hammer to lossen them, but that seems a little extreem, as is the 70 ft/lbs torque. It's a good thing I had a 3 ft. pipe to put on my torque wrench.Enjoy your Sunday. PS I was surprised how easy it was to mount 2 new tires...thought it would be alot tougher.
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Dear gatoraider,
When you mentioned the neutral switch being removed, I forgot to ask you where it should be mounted. Could you please tell me where it should be mounted? Presently it is just hanging there...loose with a bracket and 2 screws. I can't find anywhere it should be fastened.
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clutch motor
g,
OK...don't have an 18MM (Harbor Frieght set)The other side took a 12 MM socket. The carriage bolts must have been replaced. I thought the neutral switch might be the one you mentioned. Will see if I can find where the "dangling" switch could have been mounted on/near the emergency brake lever. Todays "progress"...X-threaded the bottom bolt on the started and broke it off, but luckily I got it out since I had about 3/4" to work with. Priced a stud puller at NAPA....42 bucks!!!The wiring has been "butchered". That will surely be lots more fun. My next quest will be to see if I can find some kind of wiring diagram. Hopefully not knowing the model will not be a problem.
Sorry if I am boring you with my progress, but this is someting completely different than anything I have worked on and very interesting.
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There must be something wrong at Tractor Point.com. I got 5 notifications of your last 2 responses...on different days for the last one. If I knew how, I would notify them.
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Thanx again gator,
Since I started my posts under "clutchs", I wonder if I am required to start a new thread under "starters", because that's what I am stuck on now. Oh well, here goes just the same. The starter functions great on the bench, however, the 9 tooth bendix does not engage the flywheel when mounted. Since I have no idea what the end of the gear (9 tooth) should look like, I have to assume there in lies the problem. As far as I can tell the flywheel is OK. It is almost like the starter motor/solenoid is sending the gear forward OK, but the gears will not mesh....most times...eventually they will...other times the motor just spins. I can duplicate this on the bench by blocking the gear from full motion forward..(with an open end wrench over the shaft.)
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